Dugan: 'Most people wouldn't get the mercy I got'

If Brian Dugan stood in the shoes of his victims' families, justice would be swift.

"I'd want to see (the killer) dead," he said. "I wouldn't stand for them living. I'd find a way to them before they got to the courtroom."

His words came in October 1986 while the imprisoned murderer took part in a state police study of sexual predators.

A DuPage County jury listened intently last week to nearly six hours of the recorded conversations with Robert Thorud, a mental health expert, in which Dugan in a nonchalant tone details his killings.

Jurors are hearing evidence before deciding whether Dugan should be executed for a third murder - which was his first - the Feb. 25, 1983, abduction, rape and bludgeoning of 10-year-old Jeanine Nicarico of Naperville. Dugan, 53, pleaded guilty July 28.

The recordings offered a glimpse into Dugan's mind back when he was a 30-year-old man facing the rest of his days behind bars.

The serial rapist said he never set out to kill, but decided he had to or risk getting caught. He didn't feel rage, he said, just excitement and a lack of empathy.

"I (see) myself as being totally devoid of emotion," he said.

Dugan volunteered for the study one year after he began serving natural-life prison terms for the rapes and drowning deaths of Donna Schnorr, a 27-year-old Geneva nurse in July 1984 and, that next summer, of 7-year-old Melissa Ackerman in LaSalle County.

He might have let his victims live, Dugan said, if he identified with them.

Thorud asked Dugan what he'd say to the Ackermans if he had the chance.

"There's nothing I want to say because there's nothing they'd want to hear," he said.

As for the death penalty, Dugan in 1986 believed he deserved it.

"If I were sitting in judgment of everybody, most people wouldn't get the mercy I got," he said.

Thorud said Dugan agreed to answer questions partly to get his own answers to why he possessed such darkness, but they were not to discuss Jeanine because Dugan had not been charged.

Dugan never named Jeanine, but he slipped up a couple of times with veiled admissions. Thorud contacted prosecutors several years later. Thorud said Dugan spoke freely about his crimes, detailing a litany of offenses that ranged from multistate burglary sprees to years of sexual violence.

"Given Mr. Dugan's pathology, everything he told me was taken with a grain of salt," said Thorud, who now works at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, counseling veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder.

As part of the study, Thorud said he also spent time with Richard Speck, who tortured, raped and killed eight Chicago student nurses in 1966.

Dugan's sentencing hearing continues Tuesday, when it enters its third week. So far, prosecutors have called about 30 witnesses and presented 250 exhibits, including many graphic crime-scene photos. Two women told jurors Friday how they escaped in separate incidents when Dugan attacked them.

"After he grabbed me, I went into survival mode," said 46-year-old Barbara, who was 10 in 1974 when a teenage Dugan asked her for directions to the Lisle train station. "I got up real quick and ran."

A woman named Missy, then 20, said Dugan tried to abduct her in 1982 when she was closing up for the night at the Aurora gas station where she worked. Dugan beat both charges in court, but he later admitted to Thorud and others that his victims were telling the truth.

"All I knew is I had to get away," Missy said in court, choking back tears. "He had a hold of me. I bit him. We tripped over the curb. I remember getting loose and I screamed and ran across the street."

The prosecution's case will last at least another week, with testimony from more of the women who survived, including a friend of Melissa Ackerman who escaped Dugan's clutches June 2, 1985. Some of the killer's siblings, who long ago wrote him off, also are on the prosecution witness list. His parents are deceased.

Tom and Pat Nicarico and their two other daughters, Chris and Kathy, will read victim-impact statements about the loss of Jeanine, a gap-tooth fifth-grader who hated bullies and loved reading, horses and puppies, and who could coax her dad out of their favorite candy bar, Snickers, with a flash of her twin dimples.

Listening to hours of Dugan's words proved emotional for his victims' families. In the courthouse hallway, Pat Nicarico embraced Karen Schweitzer, who was left in tears after hearing for the first time in 25 years in great detail how her little sister, Donna Schnorr, fought with her very last breath to survive.

The families support Dugan's execution.

Lawyers for Dugan said his flat, matter-of-fact tone is consistent with their experts' opinion that he is a diagnosed psychopath who because of a genetic brain defect has a reduced capacity to feel empathy, guilt or remorse and exhibits increased impulsivity and sexual promiscuity.

The defense team also will argue that Dugan merits consideration for accepting responsibility that he alone killed Jeanine. He first offered to plead guilty as early as 1985 - as long as his life was spared - to help clear two wrongly convicted men who were sitting on death row. The men were exonerated in 1995.

In fact, the defense maintains, if it weren't for Dugan's cooperation with law enforcement back then, many of his crimes - including Schnorr's murder - would remain unsolved for lack of evidence.

In the old recordings, Dugan described a normal and happy childhood in New Hampshire that began to sour after age 9 when his family moved to Lisle and both parents abused alcohol. He also shared his philosophies on politics, evolution and God.

"It's like believing in Santa Claus; he's not really there," Dugan said. "Maybe death is the beginning of another type of existence, but it's like a fairy tale. If there is a God, he's a rotten son of a bitch, because he doesn't care about what's going on (around) here."

Words: Families support Dugan's execution

<div class="infoBox"> <h1>More Coverage</h1> <div class="infoBoxContent"> <div class="infoArea"> <h2>Video</h2> <!-- Start of Brightcove Player --> <div style="display:none"> </div> <!-- By use of this code snippet, I agree to the Brightcove Publisher T and C found at http://corp.brightcove.com/legal/terms_publisher.cfm. --> <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript" src="http://admin.brightcove.com/js/BrightcoveExperiences.js"></script> <object id="myExperience43606475001" class="BrightcoveExperience"> <param name="bgcolor" value="#FFFFFF" /> <param name="width" value="300" /> <param name="height" value="255" /> <param name="playerID" value="18011347001" /> <param name="publisherID" value="1659832549"/> <param name="isVid" value="true" /> <param name="@videoPlayer" value="43606475001" /> </object> <!-- End of Brightcove Player --> </ul> <h2>Photo Galleries</h2> <ul class="gallery"> <li><a href="/story/?id=325418">Images of Brian Dugan's victims </a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=325419">Images of Brian Dugan </a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=325420">Images of Nicarico's wrongly accused </a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=325421">Images from Brian Dugan's trial </a></li> </ul> <h2>Related links</h2> <ul class="moreWeb"> <li><a href="/story/?id=308729">Dugan's criminal background</a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=308727">Timeline of Nicarico murder investigation, trials</a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=326654">Brian Dugan's victims</a></li> <h2>Stories</h2> <ul class="links"> <li><a href="/story/?id=326645">Cruz: Dugan confessed to save himself <span class="date">[10/02/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=325829">Jury picked to decide Dugan's sentencing <span class="date">[10/02/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=317249">Dugan says he tried to confess in '85 to Nicarico slaying <span class="date">[08/28/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=310026">The statement Brian Dugan wanted to read in court <span class="date">[07/28/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=310014">Nicarico neighbor recalls the search for Jeanine, painful aftermath?<span class="date">[07/28/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=310033">State moratorium on executions - 10 years and counting<span class="date">[07/28/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=310040">A timeline of the Nicarico-Dugan cases<span class="date">[07/28/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=308853">After a lifetime of violence, will jury show Dugan mercy?<span class="date">[07/23/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=308535">Guilty plea expected in Nicarico murder <span class="date">[07/22/09]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=203555">Did one Chicago-area killer create another? <span class="date">[06/05/08]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=308721">Inside the FBI files of Brian Dugan <span class="date">[01/07/07]</span></a></li> <li><a href="/story/?id=308724">Grand jury indicts Dugan in Nicarico murder <span class="date">[11/30/05]</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div>