Matthew Santos: Mainstream indie?
Matthew Santos is a struggling, up-and-coming, 25-year-old indie-folk artist. He also happens to be on tour with Lupe Fiasco.
If you've heard Chicago-based Fiasco's skyrocketing single "Superstar," you know Santos. He's the guy providing the chorus' silky-smooth pipes -- to much media acclaim. Alongside Fiasco, Santos has appeared on Letterman, Kimmel, MTV's Video Music Awards and most recently in the country's largest auditoriums with Kanye West and Rihanna.
But that's not his music, Santos says. The songs Santos writes are back home in Chicago, waiting patiently with his backing band and latest EP, a sparsely instrumental folk album soaring with the effortlessly full voice that garnered such instant "Superstar" praise. Though his solo work is temporarily on pause while he's away, Santos performs with his own band Thursday at Martyrs' in Chicago before playing the United Center with Fiasco for two nights.
It's a weird irony, he says, to tout his indie project while pimping the stuff thousands hear with Fiasco's crew every night. But he isn't complaining. Not exactly. When he's asked midinterview to clarify how he first met Fiasco, the previously charismatic Santos goes quiet and then hams, "Yeah, I met him at the Laundromat. He was doing his whites, and I was doing my darks."
While eating lunch on an off-tour day in Miami, Santos talked about the stresses of succeeding in parallel music worlds and defending a solo project that some have accused him of leaving to "sell out."
Q. You're starting your weekend at Martyrs' and continuing it at the United Center. What kind of mental preparation goes into playing such different-sized venues?
A. The preparation has already passed. At this point the type of environment at the Martyrs's show is all natural. I'm with my band, I'm with the people that I love, I'm making music that I love. It's natural; that's like breathing for me. But the United Center, it's taken me about a week and a half to sort of adjust to playing in front of 20,000 to 30,000 people a night. I'm getting used to it, I suppose you'd say. I'm definitely just playing a part, playing the rock-star part.
Q. Do you ever feel like you're playing for two different audiences without any crossover?
A. Definitely. The people who come out to see Kanye (West) and Rihanna, a lot of them are Top 40 fans and a younger crowd. The people who come out to see my music are a little bit more mature, as far as age goes. But ever since the dawning of "Superstar," it seems that people who come to my shows are a little bit more of a mixed crowd. We did an all-ages show at the Metro and drew 500 people, and a lot of them were young. It seems like people can appreciate both sides of what I do.
Q. So you're definitely seeing a response from both sides of the equation.
A. Absolutely. It's really surprising actually. I didn't think there'd be such a positive response from Lupe's crowd, but there is. Everyone's been very respectful, very positive.
Q. You've said you consider yourself more of an indie artist than a mainstream act. How hard is it to develop your indie identity?
A. (Off to the side) Hey, you didn't put any cheese on this! (Then to me) I'm sorry, excuse me. (Back off to the side) Ricki, Ricki, brother man; there isn't any cheese on it, my man. I need some cheese. … Thank you. (Then to me) Sorry; yesterday the same thing happened. I took it yesterday, but I'm not taking it today.
Q. You're living the rock-star life, right?
A. Well, I'm paying 20 bucks for this burger; I better be getting it with some cheese on it.
Q. So we were talking about your independent image.
A. Well, it's more of a credibility issue with people. People have this ideal image of what an indie artist is, and I don't quite fit that mold anymore because, I mean, I am touring with Kanye West, you know? That's as nonindependent as it gets. But when it comes down to it, the music is what should speak for itself. If you go on YouTube and you look at some of the things I've presented, it should speak for itself. It's not mainstream, it's not radio-friendly; it's just me and an acoustic guitar. So I'm hoping that despite the surface of things, people will respect my versatility as an artist and accept me as an independent artist as much as a potential popular musician.
Q. Do you think that they have so far? Like at a show like Martyrs', what type of response do you get?
A. We've only done a few shows solo, but the Metro show was an amazing response. We did not expect to bring out many people. About 500 people came out; it was amazing. So the crowd was very receptive and very positive and very supportive. I'm just hoping that people get to see the solo version instead of judging me for something else. The most important thing to me right now is to try to get the music out to as many people as possible, and with Lupe Fiasco going international, millions of people per week are hearing my music. I'm not presenting an overproduced pop album right now; I'm presenting an album called "Matters of the Bittersweet," which is just me and an acoustic guitar and a couple of my friends, so it's really low-key. Once again, I just hope that people see it for what it's worth instead of judging me as a sellout.
Q. Oh, wow, I hope people don't use that word when describing you.
A. Some have. Some people have left comments and called me a sellout already. But whatever. People have a right to their opinion. Like I said, people have ideals of what an independent musician is. But that's really a narcissistic (assumption); you restrict yourself when you do that.
Q. When you talk to the media, how much do you bring up your solo work?
A. Well lately, it's been a lot more because … I guess I'm trying to protect my credibility a lot more because I don't feel like I sold out. Literally, the meaning of selling out is to endorse a product for a lot of money that you don't necessarily believe in. And I haven't gotten a check; I'm struggling to pay my rent! (Laughs) So how can someone sell out if he's struggling to pay his rent, first of all? … I'm sacrificing a lot right now to be where I am, so I can support my family and my band, so I can support my own music, so I can go to these places in the future. A small percentage of the people who see me at the Kanye West show come and see the solo show. … I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to start small and work my way up.
Q. Tell me about how and when you formed the backup band for your solo project.
A. That came out of individual places a couple of years ago, I would say. Yeah, it's a couple of years ago now. That's when I met my drummer (Robert Tucker), and we started playing with the bass player (Graham Burris). And then I eventually started performing with Aviva Jaye, who's the backup singer and plays clarinet, harp, piano and guitar as well. Amazing, amazing musician; I've been playing with her for about three years now, four years. I met them all at different times, but we started gelling together a couple of years ago. It's very new, and since I'm on tour a lot, we haven't had time recently to really refine our sound. They're working on learning the songs that we already know.
Q. It sounds like you're already working on new songs for the next album.
A. We have about 65 songs for the next album that we have to figure out. I have a ridiculous amount of material right now, so it's a matter of figuring out what's going on the album.
Q. What was your goal when you started this?
A. There were a few goals. I guess first of all the goal was to create something that was on the edge of my own creativity … pushing some boundaries, pushing myself. And that turned into, oh, maybe I can make some money. So it's like, "I'm going to pay my rent, pay my bills and start doing something that I love." And that's still sort of my main goal that I'm working toward.
Upcoming shows
Solo project:
8 p.m. Thursday at Martyrs', 3855 N. Lincoln Ave., Chicago
Tickets: $17 at the door
With Lupe Fiasco:
7 p.m. May 23 and 24 at United Center, 1901 W. Madison St., Chicago
Tickets: $39-$77.50. (312) 559-1212.
Matthew Santos
Background: Sang the chorus in Lupe Fiasco's "Superstar"
Chicago solo project: Elliot Smith meets Jason Mraz